tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5648207363864295606.post6581234886146347484..comments2023-06-28T09:02:33.065+01:00Comments on HerbsandHags: Domestic Violence victims still need to be perfect to be deemed "Real" victimsHerbsandHagshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16915656304425240815noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5648207363864295606.post-87946763041520320822014-01-09T00:22:02.890+00:002014-01-09T00:22:02.890+00:00Thank you very much Jennifer for summing up so suc...Thank you very much Jennifer for summing up so succinctly Saatchi's pathetic revenge-type behaviour against Ms lawson.She not only dared to make public his attempts to strangle her but she also walked away from her perpetrator. It is as you say precisely at the point when a woman is about to leave or have left their partner that they and/or their children, are at most risk of male violence.<br />Shame on Allison Pearson for colluding with the menz and their victim blaming/justification stance.<br />Your radicalised 'Hell has no fury..." proverb is pure brilliance.<br />CatherineHerahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10522899531247121175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5648207363864295606.post-34517999485643409452014-01-06T12:40:32.005+00:002014-01-06T12:40:32.005+00:00Well, the domestic violence can be controlled as m...Well, the domestic violence can be controlled as many family attorneys are helping the victims by fighting for their petition.<br /><a href="http://familyattorneysinmiami.com/" rel="nofollow">Benjamin & Melmer</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5648207363864295606.post-84874641515865414232013-12-04T23:38:14.241+00:002013-12-04T23:38:14.241+00:00Alimony may be a factor in what?Alimony may be a factor in what?HerbsandHagshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16915656304425240815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5648207363864295606.post-65780741877470632762013-12-04T16:27:10.076+00:002013-12-04T16:27:10.076+00:00I think the problem is that Saatchi seems to be qu...I think the problem is that Saatchi seems to be quite good at his job - convincing the public of whatever he wants. Although to you and I it is a transparent attempt to punish her for his being found out as an abuser, to everyone else, led by the press, "see? he wasn't a nasty abuser all along! She's a drug whore! Drugs! She takes drugs! He was in the right all along. Poor old Charlie Saatchi. Nasty Nigella taking drugs, gets everything she deserves."<br />Infuriated that the radio news this evening led with "Nigella Lawson has admitted to taking drugs! ... but only a couple of times and she says this is a hate campaign..." Why not lead with "Nigella Lawson had her say and you know what, her ex husband is an abusive twat."SMA Old Postshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02622362620305337105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5648207363864295606.post-75757052348952445302013-12-03T08:59:42.483+00:002013-12-03T08:59:42.483+00:00Alimony may be a factor.Alimony may be a factor.VanRiperandNieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11525575016192055520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5648207363864295606.post-11818102282367747672013-11-30T02:24:56.007+00:002013-11-30T02:24:56.007+00:00One notes that neither of Saatchi's ex-wives h...One notes that neither of Saatchi's ex-wives have rushed to his defence. One has to assume they are not commenting on his character for fear of losing their alimonyUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03362248730335271522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5648207363864295606.post-9057743913919154562013-11-30T01:24:41.077+00:002013-11-30T01:24:41.077+00:00Let's not forget that Saatchi tried to get Nig...Let's not forget that Saatchi tried to get Nigella back via pleas from his daughter to patch things up, and a double page spread in the Sunday Mail. Is that really the actions of a man who believed his wife had a cocaine problem? Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03362248730335271522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5648207363864295606.post-57873563581317997022013-11-30T01:17:46.613+00:002013-11-30T01:17:46.613+00:00...although it also seems his evidence is full of ......although it also seems his evidence is full of contradictions - the dates just don't add up. This is a man who had had his favorite toy walk out on him and is determined to see make her suffer by spouting a host of lies with no evidence to back them up so he is left backtracking in court. Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03362248730335271522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5648207363864295606.post-16715675476734601932013-11-30T01:13:19.058+00:002013-11-30T01:13:19.058+00:00"The only way he could have done so and stood..."The only way he could have done so and stood a chance of rescuing his daughters would have been to expose Nigella as an addict and unfit to look after her children. That would have necessitated complete character assassination of his wife and consequently ruining her career, which I can easily see could be unpalatable, especially as that would have required standing up in court and having the prosecution trawl through both their private lives."<br /><br />Seems that is EXACTLY what he is doing. Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03362248730335271522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5648207363864295606.post-48623038186255158792013-11-29T17:04:18.485+00:002013-11-29T17:04:18.485+00:00I was just saying that I didn't find it the on...I was just saying that I didn't find it the one I found was the one I mentioned in my previous comment and I only mentioned DV against men because I thought it was relevant to the conversation it wasn't an attempt to say that because it happens to men too that it is somehow less repugnant or more acceptable I just think if we are going to speak on violent crime, we should not narrow the parameters further than victim and aggressor.<br />To your next point DV is about control through violence or the threat thereof no matter who the aggressor is and from the statistics I found gathered in Ireland 1 in 7 women were the victim of severe DV at some point in their lives and men came in at 1 in 17 it's a big difference over twice as likely but it does speak to it not being confined to one socio-economic group.<br />Finally I agree that it is important to distinguish between the two but if we chide and chastise anyone who reports that the victim might have been victimizing the accused or another family member then our opinions are being formed without all the facts and that isn't something I like to do. Take my opinion for what it's worth and ignore it if you want, I was just trying to give my perspectiveAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03108644781211605927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5648207363864295606.post-82231157207153520122013-11-29T15:44:32.780+00:002013-11-29T15:44:32.780+00:00Broke his heart, what a joke. Look into his eyes, ...Broke his heart, what a joke. Look into his eyes, does that man look like he might have a heart? No, he lost control of his chattel, that's all.Cailinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16706680976083823206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5648207363864295606.post-24339103106915571122013-11-29T15:09:28.563+00:002013-11-29T15:09:28.563+00:00Oh, the whole story seems like a cheap thriller to...Oh, the whole story seems like a cheap thriller to me, which only makes me think that it probably is. Nigella broke his heart, and now that sad, lonely rich man is doing everything he can do destroy her. Just check out her biography, especially the relationship she had with her first husband.Branislav Ivkovichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01578828777486139011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5648207363864295606.post-45003882152435936532013-11-29T11:40:06.613+00:002013-11-29T11:40:06.613+00:00I hope Nigella Lawson sues the Telegraph for that ...I hope Nigella Lawson sues the Telegraph for that piece of dross. Would have liked to leave a comment on their website but surprise surprise, comments were not allowed. The Telegraph and the Daily Mail are interchangeable and have been for some time.Cailinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16706680976083823206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5648207363864295606.post-89832794602188683792013-11-29T11:30:18.988+00:002013-11-29T11:30:18.988+00:00If Nigella Lawson hadn't finally summoned the ...If Nigella Lawson hadn't finally summoned the courage to leave this scumbag, none of these trashy allegations would have seen the light of day. But because she refused to sign up for further abuse, he is out for revenge. Saatchi is a textbook narcissistic psychopath. Nothing he alleges will erase the ugly image of his assault.Cailinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16706680976083823206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5648207363864295606.post-29641530611644896262013-11-29T11:24:36.164+00:002013-11-29T11:24:36.164+00:00None of the allegations made by violent male, Saat...None of the allegations made by violent male, Saatchi concerning Nigella Lawson are proven but as usual because a male is making these claims they are immediately accepted as 'truths' not allegations. Saatchi is taking revenge against Nigella Lawson because she dared to divorce him and men such as Saatchi believe women are mens' sexual property. <br /><br />This vicious piece of women-hating trash written by a female journalist is typical male supremacist strategy because make no mistake it was a man who commissioned this female journalist to write her women-hating article. <br /><br />Of course no such articles would be written claiming a male is a sexual predator when these claims have not been proven in a court of law because men would immediately become hysterical and claim their male human rights of justice had been violated. However, women don't have right of 'justice' because women are innately evil which is why unless a woman can prove she is 110% pure and innocent she is indeed evil incarnate.<br /><br />Once again men and their female handmaidens make the spurious claim that intimate male violence against women is as rare as the unicorn and/or that women in equal numbers to men commit intimate female violence against men. So if women stand on their heads then men too in equal numbers also stand on their heads!! Such deliberate obsfucation of the facts continues to occur because even stating male violence against women is pandemic is denied because men are never guilty of enacting their choice and agency to commit violence against women and their children.<br /><br />Note too that the most dangerous time for a woman is when she has left her male owner because all too commonly he takes lethal revenge by murdering her and her children if she has any. But as usual the male murderer's actions are mitigated/excused/justified because 'he supposedly snapped or lost control.' Well if men know they can lose control they have the choice of removing themselves from the situation but that statement is never made because holding men to account is taboo.<br /><br />So I repeat these allegations made by violent male perpetrator Saatchi are just allegations not facts. However, Saatchi stupidly committed physical violence against Nigella Lawson whilst he was in a public place and Saatchi is furious his real vicious character was captured on camera. <br /><br /> Hell has no fury like a man whose female sexual property has removed herself from his control.<br /><br />JENNIFER DREWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02112807166372869685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5648207363864295606.post-780247951936644612013-11-29T11:02:29.087+00:002013-11-29T11:02:29.087+00:00Alan that 1 in 4 figure is very well known and wid...Alan that 1 in 4 figure is very well known and widely quoted so I don't know why you can't find a figure to corroborate it - it's on the Women's Aid website, it's on the Home Office website - the government doesn't argue twith that.<br /><br />This post is about the background of misogyny which enables men to control women through violence or the threat of it and the willingness our society shows to enable those violent men. I have no idea why you think it's important to come and post about DV against men, which takes place in a very different socio-economic context.<br /><br />I think it's important to make the distinction between mitigating factors in law and mitigating factors in daily life. In daily life men's violence against women is punctuated by mitigation and minimisation. That's why a quarter of all women experience ongoing DV in their lives.HerbsandHagshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16915656304425240815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5648207363864295606.post-76114669420349788522013-11-29T10:57:20.603+00:002013-11-29T10:57:20.603+00:00"the courts are overwhelmingly more likely to..."the courts are overwhelmingly more likely to give custody to the mother unless there is strong contrary indications" Er, yes, Hiri, a cokehead mother is a contrary indication, very strongly so, so Saatchi would have known that if those allegations are true, it's very likely Nigella would not have been given residency. Oh dear, he would have had to character assassinate his wife? He doesn't seem to have too many qualms about doing that, does he? <br /><br />Interesting that you use language like "zealotry" and "altar" as if having a zero-tolerance view of DV, is unreasonable. Like we should all pretend that sometimes, it's acceptable. You can kid yourself that you aren't arguing that Saatchi didn't commit a heinous crime, but all your language and automatic assumptions - including giving him the most absurd benefit of the doubt in terms of his behaviour and approach to dealing with a supposedly drugged up wife - show that quite clearly, you are arguing that. Maybe you need to think about why you are so determined to believe the allegations against Nigella and even if they are true, why you think that we should all cut domestic abusers some slack if they are really provoked.HerbsandHagshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16915656304425240815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5648207363864295606.post-30554100675354911562013-11-29T09:42:13.274+00:002013-11-29T09:42:13.274+00:00His daughter? Cosima Diamond and her brother Brun...His daughter? Cosima Diamond and her brother Bruno are the children of Nigella Lawson and her late husband John Diamond. She is not Saatchi's daughter. Another bit of a story that, as Gordie says, doesn't work. This is an allegation without proof and the facts are not stacking up.Chabelahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16033420892540881457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5648207363864295606.post-88203473732195850932013-11-29T09:20:16.619+00:002013-11-29T09:20:16.619+00:00If Charles Saatchi had instead of putting his hand...If Charles Saatchi had instead of putting his hands around her neck and throttling her grabbed a table knife and sunk it into her chest would that also be justified by his concern for his daughter.<br /><br />Let's be clear in the timeline - these 2 assistants claimed that Nigella was high on drugs so let them spend as much as they liked on business account. These claims were made after there arrest for fraud. <br /><br />Charles Saatchi never observed Novella taking any drugs, but took the word of these 2 women as truth, along with sadly a lot of the media.<br /><br />Now let's examine bias - what reason could these 2 women have to lie? Well it seems like a good reason to lie to avoid being convicted of fraud and theft - yet again neither Charles Saatchi nor media seem to comment on this - instead Charles Saatchi is quoted as instantly believing what they said despite running a business with Nigella and living with her for years with no concerns before these women raised the allegation.<br /><br />Whether Nigella look drugs or not is NOT the issue - and having read the comment about Saatchi protecting children - Saatchi's daughter was over 18 - an ADULT - so capable of making her own decisions and refusing to take them if she was offered them.<br /><br />So somehow unproven allegations seem to have justified Charles Saatchi's assault upon his then wife - this sounds remarkably similar to the Iranian man killed in Bristol because he was accused of being a peadophile for filming people damaging his plants - and locally on that estate it seems a lot of sympathy for his murderers because them falsely accused him of being a peadophile therefore innocent or not he deserved it.<br /><br />The attitudes of people who would defend anyone attacking another human being not in the cause of war or self defence but because it was justified cause the victim was alleged to have committed a crime, with no trial or proof of guilt ( beyond reasonable doubt in Nigella's case doesn't even come into it as there is no evidence other than secondhand testimony ) make me feel sad for humanity - for those defending Saatchi's actions let me ask you if some kids had been destroying your garden and you filmed them for evidence to give the police - would you accept if someone then branded you a peadophile and burned you alive? Is that justified? Cause once we start accepting violence as reasonable once an allegation is made against a person were heading down the same route as that Bristol estate - and that's not a culture I would choose to live in.Nighthaunthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16897291710847948002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5648207363864295606.post-16556344107477843202013-11-29T08:41:49.644+00:002013-11-29T08:41:49.644+00:00When this story first broke I found myself asking,...When this story first broke I found myself asking, if I had lost my mother and my aunt to breast cancer at a young age, and then lost my sister to that same genetic breast cancer that hung over me and my daughter like a Damoclean sword, and then lost my much-loved husband to cancer, and then found myself in an abusive marriage, might I not have turned to some kind of chemicals to get through it? Where is everybody's humanity? Have we really lost the imagination to put ourselves in someone else's shoes? Nigella Lawson's life has been one tragedy after another. Does she not now deserve to be treated with some gentleness and empathy?rosbayeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12682832936395894834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5648207363864295606.post-27227850240003970132013-11-29T01:11:49.330+00:002013-11-29T01:11:49.330+00:00Dear Hiri Nurmi, SHOULD those allegations prove to...Dear Hiri Nurmi, SHOULD those allegations prove to be true (and so far they are only allegations):<br /><br />"The only way he could have done so and stood a chance of rescuing his daughters would have been to expose Nigella as an addict and unfit to look after her children."<br /><br />Yes. Exactly. If somebody knows their spouse is a criminal and supplies their children with drugs, endangering their lives, that person should go to the police, because it is a serious crime and not something you can try to solve at home. Also, if someone is unfit to look after their children, well, they should not be allowed to look after their children. It might sound cold, but leaving children in the care of someone who's unfit to look after them is actually much, much colder. I find standing up against a criminal far less unpalatable than threatening and strangling someone physically weaker (or having so little restraint that you do it in a public place). <br /><br />"a secular saint in some quarters of the media, then even taking such action would not be assured of success "<br /><br />I did not know police investigations and criminal courts in the United Kingdom were run by "some quarters of the media"... yes, there is always the media, but as far as I know what you accuse Nigella Lawson of is a crime and transcends the jurisdiction of the media.<br /><br />And no, there are no shades in Domestic Violence. There are cases when the victim is also a perpetrator, but that does not excuse the abusive behaviour of the one who preys on them.tapsihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17594190705022212179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5648207363864295606.post-4258881188637541542013-11-29T00:57:51.837+00:002013-11-29T00:57:51.837+00:00I feel I have to take issue with Hiri Nurmi's ...I feel I have to take issue with Hiri Nurmi's suggestion that Nigella Lawson is guilty of abusing her daughter, Cosima Diamond, and put it into context. <br /><br />First, this information came into the public domain because it was read out at the trial of the Grillo sisters. Their defence seems to be that they didn't steal money because they were blackmailing Nigella, and she 'tacitly' allowed them to spend money so that they would not tell Saatchi she was taking drugs. <br /><br />Secondly, once Saatchi found out this was the Grillo defence, he accused his ex-wife of taking drugs, in an email dated 10th October. He also said Nigella had kept it a secret from him. <br /><br />The Saatchi-Lawson divorce was pronounced by the court on 31st July, and the photographs of him choking her at a restaurant were published in late June. This means that the story Allison Pearson wants to promote requires us to believe Charles Saatchi started choking his wife because of something everbody involved says Saatchi didn't know about until several months later. That means Pearson's a bigger liar than Saatchi and her piece is exactly the sort of woman-hating hatchet job HerbsandHags says it is.<br /><br />Saatchi said at the time of the choking that he was 'trying to get a piece of snot' out of Nigella's nose. Don't you think that if they really had been arguing about drugs, he would have said so at the time, instead of allowing himself to be vilified by the press as a wife-beater? Or did he not think cocaine was bad in those days? But he attacked her anyway? You see, the story doesn't work.<br /><br />The newspapers are now printing that Nigella took coke every day for ten years. How do they work that out, given that Charles Saatchi says he knew nothing? We only have the Grillo sisters' word for it. And they are defendants on trial for taking money from their employers. But some people, like Hiri Nurmi believe them. Since Mimi Diamond is still only 19, ten years of doing drugs with mummy would be serious child abuse. If that's the truth, it's terrible. But no. What we are seeing here is exaggeration, distortion, and in Ms Pearson's case I'd say, actual enjoyment in having the opportunity to attack a woman when she's in a very vulnerable state. I do not like this one bit. <br /><br /><br /><br />Gordiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11847827252511368862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5648207363864295606.post-33867628497029032492013-11-29T00:41:18.159+00:002013-11-29T00:41:18.159+00:001 in 4 women live with chronic domestic violence? ...1 in 4 women live with chronic domestic violence? I can't find anything to corroborate that statistic, 25% of abused women stated that they had dealt with multiple forms of violence, that does not equate to 1 in 4 women being assaulted.<br />With that having been said the statistics on violence against both sexes are disturbing, but at least when a woman is the victim of domestic abuse there is legitimate outrage and it is treated accordingly, I'm not sure the same can be said for domestic violence against men.<br />One final point, while it is understandable that people would be outraged at the idea of victim blaming there are mitigating factors when it comes to every crime, so to suggest that domestic violence and crimes of that nature should be exempted from this seems to go against the most important part of a fair justice system however distasteful it may be, but that's just one person's opinion.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03108644781211605927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5648207363864295606.post-62650134094583224232013-11-29T00:33:49.272+00:002013-11-29T00:33:49.272+00:00Well the not removing himself and the children fro...Well the not removing himself and the children from the situation is simple to explain. As you know on separation in this country the courts are overwhelmingly more likely to give custody to the mother unless there is strong contrary indications. So unless Saatchi was prepared to out Nigella as an addict then by leaving her he would have made the situation worse for his daughters because they would have been much more under her influence than if he had stayed. <br /><br />If in fact he did know she was an addict he would really have had little choice but not to leave. The only way he could have done so and stood a chance of rescuing his daughters would have been to expose Nigella as an addict and unfit to look after her children. That would have necessitated complete character assassination of his wife and consequently ruining her career, which I can easily see could be unpalatable, especially as that would have required standing up in court and having the prosecution trawl through both their private lives. As Nigella was, and still is, seen as a secular saint in some quarters of the media, then even taking such action would not be assured of success and may have indeed exposed his daughters to more harm.<br /><br />Look, I'm not arguing that Saatchi did not commit a heinous crime by assaulting Nigella. But by this zealotry of not allowing that there are shades of grey you are throwing the other women in this case - his daughters - to the wolves to sanctifying your sacrifice of Saatchi on the DV altar. <br />Hiri Nurmihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00936143119575381383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5648207363864295606.post-2541151258190409752013-11-28T22:37:37.241+00:002013-11-28T22:37:37.241+00:00Sorry, but there are no shades of grey when it com...Sorry, but there are no shades of grey when it comes to domestic violence. There is no excuse for it and to argue that there is, is to make life incredibly dangerous for women. There is already too much credence given to the idea that there are plenty of excuses for it and all of them tap into the Madonna/ Whore dichotomy. 1 in 4 women live with chronic DV, 2 a week are murdered by their abusers. We can't afford to give house-room to the notion that there are shades of grey. <br /> <br />Abusers always do that thing of discrediting their victims, because they know that if people can find a way to excuse male violence against women, they will do. I'm not willing to accept Saatchi's lurid allegations unless they turn out to be true. Since posting this, I've read a bit more and apparently he's claiming that he didn't know she was a coke addict but she was one for a decade. Anyone who has actually lived with a coke addict knows that this is straining credulity - you can't live with a coke addict for a decade and not notice. (Apart from the fact that she'd only have one nostril by now.) And if he did know, then why the hell didn't he remove himself and his child from her influence much earlier on, rather than strangling her in public? A man who was not abusive, would have taken steps to remove himself and his child from the situation, as well as ensuring that her children were not subjected to this environment. He's going to have to come up with a bloody good story as to why he thought a better course of action was to strangle his wife in public, if he wants to be believed. I read a brilliant post today which is here, it explains why strangling is taken so seriously when it comes to abuse: http://samambreen.wordpress.com/2013/11/28/understanding-the-domestic-abuser/HerbsandHagshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16915656304425240815noreply@blogger.com